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ATG Approach to Knee Pain Prevention

Chris T, [12/04/2023 11:06]

One of the reasons that brought me to ATG is improving my back problems. It's not superbad but every couple month my back flares up in different situations. Then backpain lasts for a week and dissapears slowly... One bad habbit which came with this was me do everything with a straight back. Which I'm slowly realising was probably not the best... 

As suggested I startet with "knee ability zero". I'm 2 weeks in. 

BUT now something strange happened, I started to develop knee pain. Just right under the knee cap on both knees... While resting it's just a slight feeling (maybe feels a bit swolen). While doing movement sometimes it's a quick sharp pain, that dissapears right away... 

I never had knee problems before... 

Would you say it is just too much knee over toe postions in the beginning?

Ben Patrick, [12/04/2023 17:52]

Chris definitley from causing more adaptation to the areas. This could happen to any part of the body from trying to make it stronger. It means the demand is exceeding recovery.

On an extreme note, Charles Poliquin once had a program where he EXPECTED tendinitis.

As a coach, I only look for GAIN. Less pain in sport and life. Anything else means something is excessive. Too much work, too much load, too little stretching, all possible reasons.

Flossing is a great way to keep active while letting it recover.

Usually on Zero someone has LOW ability. Therefore would be unlikely to overdo things, because of using very gentle levels. Someone with no knee pain was not the intention of Zero.

You probably have good range and load and therefore you’re way overtrained compared to someone who is using much less range and is much more cautious.

You could do this with knees, hamstrings, elbows, anything. The most potent exercise to bulletproof you can cause tendinitis if not fully understood with experience coaching it.

Sissy squats for example are POWERFUL.THE most powerful bulletproofer in my opinion. Also can give tendinitis FAST. 

This is why, once out of pain, I only use each main exercise once per WEEK. Once a week squat, split squat, step up, is plenty for most goals. And sissy squats are nowhere to be found in the ATG system. Awesome exercise, too much risk.

Hope all that data helps!

Mark Mammoser, [12/04/2023 18:00]

plus on your note @Kneesovertoesguy of doing things once a week…that’s plenty 

growth comes with time, same with adaptations. once a week, over 52 weeks in a year, that’s all you need for most, ESPECIALLY when you start adding more and more load

Ben Patrick, [12/04/2023 18:03]

Yep! ATG’s success rate when not overdoing it at the beginner is UNREAL. I trained so many hundreds in person and as a coach you can and should shoot for 100% BIG TIME RESULTS.

This is why a coach is so valuable. I go sooooo simple and slow to start with people to start.

This is why, online, things are trained only once per week, other than Zero, which is intended for someone who has super low knees over toes ability, to get things moving. After that, once a week is all I use online for each desired quality.

Because it is anatomy and physiology. It works. Regardless of opinion. IF it’s not overdone.

Meanwhile, with an off season athlete with short window, you can directly coach much more frequently, when you really have a lot of experience.

Even then, though, I still like once per week with INTENT.

Meaning I WANT to squat more than once a week. I have to hold myself back. Limit to once. But make that session a guarantee of producing the desired adaptation. That’s just my personal take.

ATG is not actually programming. ATG is just the quality of form on the exercises. There is infinite programming that can be done with ATG. But not infinite form standards.

A split squat has a pure and perfect form that can give results your entire life. But could be programmed a 100 different ways.

I put a lot of notes above, but all in all I would say for a pain-free knee, loading it once per week (per quality) and gradually getting stronger would be my safest approach. This will add further protection. This would be done in balance to getting stronger in the rest of your body’s qualities.

Here’s an overall observation…

1. ATG requires working into more difficult areas compared to traditional exercise…

2. Actual MAJOR injuries in sport and life are wayyyyyy up over the decades of avoidance

Example: 1 million knees replaced per year in America, and expected to 3.5X by 2030….

Coaches often brag about “no weightroom injuries”. This is very interesting since you’ll often see multiple players going down with major knee surgeries just on one team, one season. Yet you never see coaches taking responsibility for that!

So ATG is “tough” - but we drastically reduce MAJOR injuries. 

This is like life. You see these countries that go this route of “no one must feel pain” and they wind up economically collapsing and going to shit. Very interesting.

ATG can DEFINITELY do something about those gloomy knee replacement predictions. We will. They WON’T 3.5X thanks to us.

But that’s only because we figure out how to FACE the knee and its abilities, rather than fun from it.

Major surgery, major weakness, is an awful feeling compared to at least trying to do something about it. And our success rate is shockingly high.

Anyways, this was just on my mind this morning. I do NOT want to give someone a pain, but I’d rather PROTECT people against major weakness, and help them build ABILITY, over YEARS, than avoid ability.

But we need more actual coaches and gyms to increase that success rate.

This would be true in learning anything new on your own, vs with someone experienced. If you try real estate on your own you’d have higher risk than with a seasoned mentor in real life… But I’d rather try owning than rent my entire life.

Best bet is to take it SLOW, and master it, rather than rush. I think this is true to any area of life. Gradually master it. Neither run from it nor overdo it all at once.

Running = good for body. No running = bad. Too much running = also bad lol!

Studies go back and forth and get confusing. But it’s ALWAYS COMMON SENSE!


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